Meditate or Mediate?

A recent conversation that took place in regards to the conflict in Gaza.

Michael: Israel must end.

Ines: Amen to that my friend!

ME(St.John): Israel must end? Amen to that?
Thats the ridiculous mentality that got us to where we are today.
I think you need to rethink that with a little more clarity.

Wasim: No way of arguing.. its the burden of killing mass population these bastards will face at some point...

Ines: St.John,what the hell are you talking about??
you think that believing in such a thing is rediculous???i try my best to spread whatever the hell israel is doing in not only gaza but palestine in general and there is no shame in praying for its distruction or saying amen !!!
so pls whatch your tong and where it might lead you you no nothing about my mentality so stop judjing others and try to fixe the situation with wathever you got even if it is a few pictures and a prayer ok??

ME:Ines - I never claimed to "know you" or "your mentality", I simply read what you wrote and responded. Perhaps you are the one whom should "watch your toungue" if you are not sure how to properly convey your thoughts. I disagree with what you wrote and yes I think it is ridiculous to wish the destruction of a nation. Are you a war veteran or refugee? Do you have any Palenstinians or Israelis in your family? If so, you should know better. Praying or hoping for the destruction of anyone or anything is senseless and serves no purpose. The Israeli government has violated just about every UN resolution and killed thousands of innocent people, yes, but the "destruction" of Israel makes no more sense than the destruction of Palestine. Its just reverse discrimination. Why should all Israeli's be held accountable for a corrupt government? I do believe in a one state solution and perhaps I misunderstood the language you used, but to me "destruction" means more violence, and that will solve nothing. Real peace is the only solution. People must learn to get along. There simply is no other way.

Wasim: St.John... well not must, u ARE zionist by ur words. A person comes and murders your mother in front of you, steal all your property and you cannot want proper justice, thats how preposterous you sound. Its a terrorist state we are talking about. You would only speak otherwise as long as you are retarded and israeli and a murderer...

Amen to the destruction of Israel.

Ines: i wont watch my toungue cos i'm not saying anything wrong.
as for my wish of the destruction of israel i'm talking about the false governmant that need to desapear i was never against jews them selves but against zionists,i do believe in living in harmoney between all humanbeings chritiens,jews,muslims...and as for having a family member who is jew or palistinian well i have friends considered as family from both sides and all of them praying for the en of the israelian presence and occupation in palestine...
i'm gonna keep on doing whatever i can cos even if i'm not palestinian they are humanbeings like me so mr cameron sorry but the peace you're asking for will never be accomplished if israel does not stop existing(again talking about the occupation and government)

ME: Wasim - A zionist? lol! That shows how little you know. I come from a family of Palestinians, not Israelis. And if someone murdered my friends or family, etc...I may want revenge, but I also know it will get me/them nowhere. Again, that is the mentality that has nurtured the generational hatred which continues the senseless violence of both the Israelis and Palestinians. I am against Zionist politics and propaganda, but that can not be solved with more violence.
@Ines - Thank you for clarifying. Yes, the occupation must end.

Wasim: St.John - This is the problem with Israel. A two state solution has not worked and will not work. I might know less, I am from Bangladesh, which fought against Pakistan in 1971 and freed itself. Since both the countries are independent, respectable and not criminals like Israel, they did not prolong the violence even after a solution was presented. However Israel's intentions do not even remotely show the evidence in the minutest to actually agree on a violence-less solution and live for peace. Israel is always planning terrorist actions against unarmed people.
However I dont seem to understand your views regarding 'I may want revenge" and "..it will get me/them nowhere" If neutralizing criminals took the justice or situation nowhere, then there would not have been anything called ''Law'' or ''Rights''. Again by your words ur not sure whether you want to avenge your loved ones' murderers. Dont you think the terrorists/Israel would be encouraged to burn more innocent lives to death..if they are not knocked out of the picture? It is not like Israel has not got the time and chance to stay safely with its neighbors. It is a proven fact that Israel is Pure Evil.Look at the figures.. US is funding terrorism for years now, which means a particular president has nothing to do with it... US has most of its presidents as ''just'' ornamental symbols. They definitely do not represent the authority of the government and so on. Even my third-world poor country has better political influences of those who get elected, and the political figures do not just sprout out a year before the elections, rather they are known because of their activities and reputations through years. Its the citizens of the US who have to understand that however proud they are being of their country has little substance and the way the entire system works has to change.

Douglas: The US grew out of a genocide much like the one Israel is attempting to grow out of. If we all agree that we are against Zionism as a policy/politic/movement, then we all agree that Israel as a State should not exist. If Jews want to live in a land that they claim they have historical ties to that is fine but they have to accept the fact that they cannot be in political and economic control of a land that has belonged to someone else for thousands of years (the Palestinians). You cannot simply plant yourself in someone else's country and call it your own, period. So really, if you are against Zionism, you are FOR the destruction of the Israeli State because the only thing Zionism does is call for the ESTABLISHMENT of an Israeli state, the protection of it, and as we all have realized by now, the expansion of it. So the answer is YES, Israel MUST END, not just the occupation, but the existence of Israel as well. Not the existence of Jews, just the existence of Israelis.And when I say that the existence of Israelis must end, I do not mean the death of all of them either. What I mean is that if you end the existence of Israel, there will no longer be civilians called "Israelis" because they will become Palestinians. Hopefully it won't take very much violence to get to this point, but if it does take violence to reach a point where all of the land in that area is once again restored to Palestine (even prior to the UN Partition in '48) than the Palestinians have every right to win the war and expel the Israelis. By any means necessary.

Jane: Very eloquently put, Douglas

ME: Violence is never eloquent.

Douglas: You obviously didn't understand what I said. "hopefully it won't take very much violence to get to this point, but" . . . I have no bloodlust, but often times history has proven that violence can be necessary. The Palestinians may not want to attack or hurt Israelis to achieve the goal of getting their land back, but the Israelis will not give it up because the people in power in Israel are already violent. Do you think you can reason with people who are genocidal and violent, St.John? As a matter of fact, since you think peace is such a viable option and you probably are so liberal you think that violence is "never necessary" then why don't you be our spokesperson. You are against Zionism. Go reason with them, tell them why they shouldn't try to expand and profit off of land speculation and development of other peoples land. Tell them to stop and to cease existing in their priveleged position as members of the State of Israel. I'm sure they will probably laugh at you.
Every human being has an inalienable right to self defense. No human being has the right to aggression. The zionist State of Israel is aggressive and that is why it is perfectly OK for supporters of that aggression to be killed in defense.A fight that is fought for the right reason is honorable. A fight that is honorable has the potential to be spoken of eloquently. That is why Palestine is the shining light of hope for every oppressed and colonized nation in the world. There is something eloquent about a boy who refuses to let them beat him despite the fact that his mother and father were killed before he was even a teenager. There is something eloquent in his defiance that is emblematic in his throwing a rock at a tank. His determination and his desperation is an eloquent argument against imperialism and colonialism everywhere and if his fight inspires eloquence in others it is valid no matter how many people that boy goes on to kill when he gets his hands on something more effective than a rock.

ME: I never said violence is never necessary. Do you think that Gandhi would have accomplished anything by fighting? Has the fighting in Palestine accomplished any peace in the past? No. Violence begets violence. As the Buddha said: "Victory creates hatred. Defeat creates suffering. The wise ones desire neither victory nor defeat... Anger creates anger... He who kills will be killed. He who wins will be defeated... Revenge can only be overcome by abandoning revenge... The wise seek neither victory nor defeat."